Archived Message
Starter motors
After ten years of use my starter motor has become lazy when it is hot and although the engine has never failed to start it is only a matter of time before it wonít.

I am considering replacing the starter motor with a Ďhi torqueí version and a quick trawl of the internet reveals several potential suppliers such as this one from Rimmer Bros. http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID007495 for £234.00, or this from Cambridge Motorsport http://www.cambridgemotorsport.com/Rover-V8-High-Torque-Starter-Motor for £235.00, or http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/770/category/139 from AES for £170.00 or BHA5223X http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=6747 from Moss for £278.95 or http://www.v8register.net/subpages/news120113starter.htm from Clive for £252.00.

Now, they all look similar and details are sparse so my question is: has anyone used one of the above and would they like to share their experience, good or bad?
Geoff King
03/06/2012 @  20:27
Under topic: General
 
Archived Reply(ies) received for this Message
Starter motors
Hi Geoff,
I purchased the Hi Torque motor from Cambridge Motorsport in 2004. It has seen good service over 12,000 miles. This is bolted to a 3.9 engine built by V8 Developments.
Regards
Steve Bowley
04/06/2012 @  06:06
 
Starter motors

Geoff, I had the same problem and opted for the same solution. I went for the Clive Wheatley one - he always gives me good service. It's hi-torque as a result of using a modern hi-tec hi-speed permanent magnet motor with an integrated reduction gearbox, all in a package smaller than the original. One thing you don't get is the auxiliary solenoid contacts that short the coil ballast. However, I'd long since replaced mine with a power diode from the starter relay so this was of no consequence. It may not be needed if you have improved the battery arrangements but on the original twin 6Vs (some years ago) mine would not start with ballast un-bypassed. I now have twin 12V batteries (these gave my ageing starter another 3 years of life but it finally got too picky about hot starts).
The hi torque starter is claimed to reduce battery load and increase cranking speed. From my measurements the battery load current is the same as the original but the cranking speed is certainly higher. So battery load voltage will be the same and so ignition also the same strength but starting time will likely be less due to faster cranking.
I had no problems fitting it - it did what it said on the tin. The sound is markedly different due to the high speed motor which gives a background whine. The starter has been in use for a year now and seems set to continue to give reliable brisk starting. Conclusion: Pleased with the decision. A definite improvement.
Bob Owen
04/06/2012 @  16:22
 
Starter motors
I had serious trouble with a reconditioned starter motor, car wouldn't start when hot. Eventually decided to replace with the "new" high torque geared motor. Only source I could find at short notice back then was SC parts.

Motor is much smaller and as Bob Owen says it does the job. No connection for the ballast bypass but I left wiring as is. Have electronic ignition and new motor doesn't drop the volts as much. Starts every time.

As Bob says the "whirring" is different and not nearly as satisfying as the original "clunk" before firing up.... I really miss that.
Robert William Kerr
04/06/2012 @  18:09
 
Starter motors
I'm still using the factory fitted starter on my car. Although, it was showing similar symptoms when I first picked it up last April.
Figuring I'd not got a lot to lose I went around the car and checked all the major connection points - battery, earth lead, starter wiring etc...
The problem went away.

Perhaps you've got a high resistance connection somewhere which is being exasperated by the heat, Geoff?
JC Moulds
04/06/2012 @  19:43
 
Starter motors

Yes, it's a good idea to eliminate any possible bad contacts before condemning the starter. Also to ensure the heat shield is present - if not CW does good RV8 ones which will fit the V8. However, i think the hot failure is usually due to the solenoid becoming marginal. On a pre-engaged starter the solenoid first causes the windings to be in series turning the motor slowly as the pinion engages the starter ring (to ensure mesh) and then making final contacts which put windings in parallel for high power to actually crank the engine. When the solenoid is iffy this last stage is not achieved. The magnetic pull reduces with temperature (coil resistance goes up by 3% per 10C rise so current reduces similarly and pull-in force is proportional to current, so a solenoid that will work at 20C needn't work when hot - pull in 25% less or worse).
Bob Owen
05/06/2012 @  01:11
 
Starter motors
Thanks for the replies guys.

Steve,
The Cambridge Motorsport one is possibly the one Iíll go for, itís been reliable and that is what Iím looking for. Do you know the manufacturer?

Bob,
I only have a single 12v battery and canít fit another without some fairly significant rework as my Supersports shell doesnít have provision for it. I donít require the ballast wire, the SD1 ignition doesnít need it and the engine always fires up as long as the starter motor manages to get one piston over its compression stroke, but thatís getting increasingly marginal. No heat shield but I do have RV8 style manifolds and they really are not close to the starter motor. Good point about the solenoid, I need to spend some time investigating that.

Robert,
Iíd missed the one from SC Parts. http://www.scparts.co.uk/index/lang-2/lkz-195/markenid-8/katnr-183/kat_sprache-2/hrubnr-1569/rubrik-4824/functiontpl-virtueller_katalog_artikelresult.tpl,kat_id-265403,artikelnr-339365.htm £244.99 so middle of the road for price.

JC,
The first thing I did was check all the connections, the battery and the alternator. Itís the starter motor/solenoid that is bad.

The starter motor has started three different engines over 28 years and has given good service Ė well done Joe Lucas Ė but I think the time has come to replace it.

Iíve just found this one that looks like the one Clive sells. http://www.motorsport-tools.com/powerlite-all-rover-v8-engines-high-torque-starter-motor-p-252439.html Made in England, although sadly Iím not convinced that is a good thing anymore. The website states £198.72 but Iíve asked Motorsport Tools to confirm the price and availability.

I apologise if I appear to be seeking the cheapest possible price, Iím really searching for the best product at a reasonable price and from somewhere that will accept an internet order and ship to France.
Geoff King
05/06/2012 @  03:47
 
Starter motors
Geoff! You've certainly got your moneyís worth after 28 years, then!?

If you run into difficulties with companies not willing to ship anywhere other than a UK address, you're more than welcome to have things shipped to my pad and I'll post them on to you if it'll help? I have to go down to the post office 6 days a week anyway, so it certainly wouldn't be an inconvenience on my part!

Anyway, you know my email address if you spot something, eh?
JC Moulds
05/06/2012 @  05:17
 
Starter motors
Hi Geoff,
The starter is made by Edge - still listed on the Cambridge Motorsport site at £235.00. No connection with them but happy with the product.
Regards
Steve Bowley
05/06/2012 @  05:21
 
Starter motors
Thanks JC, I still have your email address but I have two daughters in the UK so getting things shipped via one or the other is not really a problem. However, it is easier if I can get parts shipped direct to France Ė some suppliers wonít even ship from England to Scotland.

Steve,
There appears to be two or perhaps three manufacturers; Edge and PowerLite and possibly another I canít identify Ė the motor from Rimmer Bros.
Geoff King
05/06/2012 @  06:02
 
Starter motors
I can't add anything regarding the starter motors, but I can tell you that Jonathon Savage at Cambridge Motorsports goes out of his way to ensure his company give good service.
Mike Howlett
06/06/2012 @  01:01
 
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